By Noreen Marcus, FloridaBulldog.org
In 2018 Florida legislators — even the NRA posse — bowed to the urgent need for gun control after a mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School: They passed minimal reforms including a red flag law.
The law sanctions a violence-prevention strategy that allows state court judges to temporarily take firearms away from people who show, through words or deeds, they’re dangerous to themselves or others.
Refusing to relinquish the firearms is a crime. Similar laws have been adopted in the District of Columbia and 19 other states; they’ve been proposed in 13 more.
“It’s a big deal,” Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said after then-Gov. Rick Scott signed the red flag bill into law. Once it’s activated, a mentally ill person “can’t run out and buy guns, acquire guns, because you’re prohibited from possessing, from owning or purchasing,” Gualtieri said.
But without effective enforcement, laws are just empty words. And numbers show that application of the red flag law is wildly inconsistent in Florida’s 67 counties.
In some states family members can initiate the process, but Florida leaves it up to law enforcement.
PROOF OF GUN CRISES AVERTED
Police must file court petitions to obtain risk-protection orders (RPOs). The petition can be challenged—if the firearms holder can afford a lawyer—before a judge either issues the order or rejects the petition.
Florida judges have signed thousands of these orders since March 2018. Overall, as of July 1, the total number of petitions was 9,391; fewer than 1 percent were denied, according to data from court clerks.
Periodically, the media feature stories about crises averted because of the red flag law: a young man posts on Facebook “I don’t know why I don’t go on a killing spree;” a couple shoot up their house while high on drugs; a man points a rifle at a motorcyclist. All were disarmed by the red flag law.
Leading gun control advocate Sen. Chris Murphy, D-CT, has called Florida’s reforms a model for the nation. Others note the gap between laws on the books and on the streets where they’re enforced–or not.
“The problem is that every Florida county can use the law or not use it, and I don’t think there’s any way for citizens to know what they’re doing,” said Barbara Markley, co-chair of the gun safety committee of the League of Women Voters’ Broward County chapter.
“I think this is an important and useful tool to prevent gun violence and people should know if sheriffs decide not to use it for political reasons,” she said.
POLK COUNTY HAS MOST RPOs
You’d expect police in Miami-Dade County, with a population of about 2.7 million, to seek substantially more risk-protection orders than police in Polk County, the Lakeland-Winter Haven area, with a population of about 725,000.
Yet judges granted more than four times the number of RPO petitions in Polk (1,406) than in Miami-Dade (331) during the 51 months that ended July 1, according to the court clerks’ data.
The chart shows that Polk had the highest number of successful RPO petitions of any county in the state, 1,406. One county away, Osceola had 12.
In urban South Florida, the numbers were higher for Broward (949) and Palm Beach (498) counties than the 331 for Miami-Dade, the state’s most populous county.
Miami-Dade Police Director Alfredo Ramirez has not spoken out publicly about the red flag law, an internet search showed. The county’s public information office, which represents his department, didn’t respond to Florida Bulldog’s emailed request for comment.
In neighboring Broward County, police may be inclined to apply the red flag law aggressively because Parkland survivors and their supporters lobbied fiercely for gun reform. Following the tragic events of Feb. 14, 2018, they’ve become a political force to be reckoned with at the local, state and national levels.
SOME SHERIFFS RAISE RED FLAGS
The law’s erratic statewide track record is hard to understand. Some sheriffs and police chiefs say they appreciate risk-protection orders, while others seem to think they interfere with gun rights; or, for whatever reason, police may not prioritize asking judges for the orders.
Markley sees this selective enforcement as a problem.
“I don’t think sheriffs should be able to pick and choose what laws they’re gonna enforce,” she said. “They took an oath when they took office to uphold the law. How do you get to decide which ones to enforce? It’s not up to you.”
Sheriffs in Polk and Pinellas, the counties with the most risk-protection orders, praise and defend the red flag law.
Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd, a self-described “Second Amendment guy,” said the order sets “a cooling off period” for people who might otherwise act out violently. It allows deputies to focus on crime prevention instead of having to react “too late” to an active shooter, he told CNN.
NEXT UP: GUN RIGHTS, NOT REFORMS
Pinellas Sheriff Gualtieri, who led an investigation into the Parkland tragedy, has said a risk-protection order might have prevented shooter Nikolas Cruz from carrying out his rampage. Cruz was sentenced to life in prison for murdering 17 students and faculty and wounding 17 others.
“We have needed this law for decades,” Gualtieri told The Associated Press in 2020. His department’s specialized red flag unit obtained the second-highest number of risk-protection orders in the state: 1,245.
Bills proposed in advance of the upcoming legislative session include a measure that would allow family members to file red flag petitions.
“This life-saving tool has already been proven to be highly effective. Expanding its scope of use will empower people to take action when they see the early warning signs of potentially dangerous behavior,” state Rep. Kelly Skidmore said in a news release when she filed her bill in December. Her fellow Palm Beach County Democrat, state Sen. Lori Berman, filed an identical bill in the Senate.
Markley said she supports the proposal because “you’re able to use the law in a better way. Family members are the ones who know who’s in trouble. They can blow the whistle.”
But she predicts all of the gun reform energy will be deployed against a bill backed by Gov. Ron DeSantis that would enlarge the right to bear concealed weapons, something the governor calls “constitutional carry.” In its final form, the bill may or may not require background checks.
This session, Markley said, “I don’t think anything sane has a chance of passage.”
Rich7553 / February 1, 2023 11:33 am
“I don’t think sheriffs should be able to pick and choose what laws they’re gonna enforce,” she (Markley) said. “They took an oath when they took office to uphold the law. How do you get to decide which ones to enforce? It’s not up to you.”
Choosing not to seek a RPO is not failure or refusal to enforce a law. The RPO law doesn’t say that law enforcement MUST seek an RPO when X, Y, and Z are alleged, it says they MAY seek an RPO from a judge. Should a judge issue a RPO and law enforcement fails to act on it, that would be non-enforcement.
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Patti Lynn / February 3, 2023 7:38 pm
Does someone have to lose a loved one to gun violence before their eyes are opened? How can FloriDUH even consider allowing anyone to carry a concealed weapon without a THOROUGH background check, firearm training, and a permit? We have lost sight of “the well trained Militia” in favor of “Stand your ground.” If the purpose of government is to protect its citizens, we are far, far, afield. We are giving our children almost unfettered access to an amazing array of weaponry.
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JB / February 5, 2023 4:03 pm
The Parkland HS killer was protected and his troubled mental health issues were in fact covered up by multiple Florida law enforcement agencies, and the Broward County School Board, and the Department of Children and Families. They were all following Obamas guidelines to keep juvinile criminals out of the justice system. All the warning signs were there that Nick Cruz should have been placed in sequestration under Floridas Baker Act at minimum. At maximum Cruz should have been convicted of his earlier crimes which would have precluded his ability to buy firearms. But Cruz was protected by those who should have been protecting his victims. Obama liberalism is what kept Cruz out of jail for his earlier crimes. And enabled Cruz to kill his classmates.
Red Flag laws are a dangerous precedent, ignoring due process and the Constitional rights of those accused of unusual behaviors by others untrained in psychology or those with a vendetta against others. Red Flag laws are modeled after Stalins laws. It goes like this. Accuse someone of being deranged, confiscate their property, and throw them in prison.
It was Democrats that forced the closing of public mental hospitals in America. Fifty years ago every state had asylums for the mentally ill. Today the mentally ill live on the streets, commit many crimes, and are imprisoned without getting the treatments the mentally ill require. Had Nick Cruz been born decades earlier he would have lived in an asylum for the mentally ill, and kept from hurting himself, others, and animals. And he would have never been permitted to possess a gun if institutionalized.
My rights to possess arms without paying government permit fees and submitting fingerprints begin the minute I am born into America. Today a century of gun laws that restrict ones 2nd Amendment rights are finally being overturned and removed. The Supreme Court has seen the light. I applaud the Governors position on ending Floridas firearms licensing sceme to carry a concealed firearm. Remember that criminals are already carrying guns, and they are never restrained by gun laws or any laws for that matter.
Local Communist Jim Defede hosted a clown woman from Parkland who sits on the Florida Legislature. The topic was Floridas gun laws and the lifting of the licensing scheme for conceal carry. Everything this clown woman said was untrue and pure theatrics, fear mongering that background checks to own guns will go away and if drivers get licenses so should gun owners. Well how many criminals carry guns and drive cars without licenses now ? Laws only restrict the law abiding. And the Constitution says nothing about “the right to own cars shall not be infringed. “
For 20 years I have carried a weapon everywhere concealed. I carry a gun because I cant carry a cop. And it payed off as I was once assaulted by a larger person, and the drawing of my weapon and aiming at his chest instantly stopped his advances. Stand your ground laws work.
Those lawmakers that work to deny me my 2nd Amendment rights see individual liberties as threatening to them. Because the basis for the 2nd amendment was not for hunting or target practice. Not at all. It was to give Americans the rights and tools to fight government tyranny, and to protect their liberties from a government that turns against the Constitution.
Look at the states with the most restrictive gun laws and you will find states with the highest crime levels. You will also find those are the most liberal states with weak prosecution rates for crimes, most liberal drug laws, and high rates of socialist lawmakers. California is noteworthy for this.
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Michael / February 8, 2023 1:27 am
Does “…shall not be infringed.” have any meaning at all to Florida? What about the 4ths “unreasonable searches and seizures” or the 5ths “right to due process”? Words are NOT violence. A RIGHT is a given, period. No training, however wise, is necessary to exercise it. Open your eyes and see the tyranny in this. Your ability to defend yourself from the government cake be taken away without any hearing in that matter based on innocuous speech made in passing. If someone is an immediate, legitimate danger the police can be called and they can question that individual or arrest them if necessary. To do otherwise suppresses free speech, however discomfiting it may be, and renders significant parts of your constitutional rights null and void.
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MH/Duuval / February 15, 2023 8:45 am
“Shall not be infringed” is preceded by a “well-regulated militia.” This is cherry-picking, just like sheriffs and DAs do all the time.
Of course, when. you’re the Big Dog, you get to decide who is cherry-picking and who is not. DeSantist can do it; SA Warren was fired.
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Ryan / February 15, 2023 10:01 pm
My guns were seized (including a pistol brace AR) and CCL revoked under this law and it’s been extremely unfair, there is NO due process the 14 day hearing is a sham and the judges usually keep your guns for two years instead of one. I never threatened to shoot up a school and I don’t have any mental illness. This is just the first step to take guns from law abiding citizens!!!
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Bob Faircloth / April 2, 2023 10:58 pm
I have a neighbor who stole $130 dollars from me about a year ago. I’ve run into him a couple times since and I’ve called him a thief and liar every time with a few other not so nice words, but I’ve never threatened him in any way and there has always been witnesses to each encounter. Yesterday he rode down my street while I was talking to neighbors and of course I had to point out there’s that thief and liar. He responded with “I know you have guns and I’m going to report your threats. Again I have never threatened him and there were four witnesses yesterday. Could he actually lie and have my firearms taken away?
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Enoch Ronaldson / April 9, 2023 5:23 pm
In the US you should be allowed to have guns and use them as you wish. MAGA.
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s voss / April 10, 2023 11:27 am
Bob Faircloth, he could lie but then again he could also be arrested for filing a false report. Then you could also sue him for damages. The Florida red flag law only allows law enforcement to file the request with the court. So if Law enforcement comes have your friends come over and tell them what the guy said.
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T / April 10, 2023 2:58 pm
Q#1: The Florida Transgender shooter had been under the care of Physicials for mental health. Why didn’t the physicians report to the city, county and state that this person was getting treatment ? It was the physician’s responsibility to report it.
Q#2. The shooter posted several posts on social media of their plans and even stating that they would most likely die .
Why didn’t the FBI & Social media stop and report the publicly posted violent intentions of the shooter as soon as the accused posted them? It would of saved lives.
I mean during Covid you could not say you were going to church on Sunday or Social media would take down your post and FBI would show up at your door to arrest you in some cities.
I see it like this. ATF has a list of all Red Flag and Gun laws for National and per state. There are laws but they are not being enforced.
In this particular incident did they not report the mental illness being treated and the violent posts of this person because they were transgender?
6 people are dead. 3 of them are children . All I see the left doing is not enforcing the very gun laws they demanded and they care more about protecting the Transgender Violent posts and failed mental health care than protecting the innocent children and adults that the killer targeted.
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Ryan / July 5, 2023 1:10 pm
I lost my guns, CCL, 2nd amendment rights, reputation, job, and car because of Florida’s red flag laws. Fighting it in court was a waste of time and $5000 on lawyers. I’m also stuck with a $4000 Baker Act fee from the hospital. To make matters worse one of my guns was a pistol braced AR that I can’t even register because my name is in the NICS background check system. I’ve talked to many people with similar stories, mostly people who had to deal with a pissed off neighbor or a psychotic X-girlfriend or room mate that made false statements to police. The RPO reports stay online forever and will ruin your chances of finding a job in the future.
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Rich / December 21, 2023 8:05 pm
Let’s get something right. Police and judges take a oath to up hold the constitution NOT unconstitutional gun laws that clearly infringe on the people’s rights and the right to due process. Something else you need to know is that the Dept of Justice is giving millions of dollars to countries who enforce this BS red flag law. The government is trying to disarm the people and allow the communist agenda. Read Karl Marx. Land of the free my ass. God bless America
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